Life on Books - East of Eden Week 2 Meeting 2
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On this week's call we discuss the idea of Timshel, how it relates to our characters, and why we think the narrator doubts his own assessment of Cathy.
Chat Transcript00:09 Brian: I’m currently reading the East of Eden letters.
00:09 Brian: I have a book on the way from the library which is his journals regarding writing EOE
00:10 Aleksandra: If you run into something can you share?
00:10 Brian: Only 25% into it, but so far I wouldn’t say that there’s any more subtlety to his intentions than what seems to be plain on the page.
00:11 Allison: I am not getting into this argument today. hahaha. Because I don’t agree with projecting modern views on her.
00:11 Brian: But the journals are interesting to read. He considers this to be his magnum opus as he’s writing it.
00:16 Brian: It is heavily implied in the text/inferred on the page before the barn assault scene that Cathy would have manipulated that. Did I read that wrong? Chapter 8 nearing end of section 1?
00:17 Sasha: you read it right, but are we really going to believe a ten year old capable of such a manipulation? what did she have to gain from it
00:18 Allison: Every secondary source I have read concerning the character of Cathy Ames goes against all this sympathy and victimhood this book club or at least some members are projecting on her. It was apparently not Steinbeck’s intent for her to be sympathetic or a victim.
00:19 Aleksandra: You can be a victim and vile person at the same time.
00:19 Phil: true
00:20 Allison: but I think there has been too much projection of modern values on her.
00:20 Brian: I tend to split the difference here. I think that Steinbeck probably did intend Cathy and many of the other characters to be very simple in order to serve an allegorical purpose. But that’s why I didn’t love the book. So I find these other readings, even if they are revisionist and against Steinbeck’s intentions, to be more interesting.
00:21 Brian: Right - it is a lot to believe of a 10 year old.
00:23 Allison: I thought we were supposed to be discussing names lol.
00:25 Allison: Greek Origin: Catherine traces back to the ancient Greek name Aikaterine, which is traditionally linked to the Greek word katharos, meaning “pure”
00:26 Brian: Interesting. That’s a clever choice of name.
00:26 Sasha: nice catch Allison- I wonder if pure has the connotation of to the good or if she can be pure evil
00:28 Eric: Catherine is a prominent saint who was tortured on a wheel.
00:28 Allison: Alternative Theories: Some scholars suggest Aikaterine may relate to hekateros (“each of the two”), the Greek goddess Hecate, or a Coptic phrase.
00:28 Brian: Thanks Aleksandra - I just subscribed to that YouTube channel
00:29 Audrey: Well said, Aleksandra!
00:33 Eric: If people were chill with being whipped, there’d be no reason to do it.
00:33 Aleksandra: You are welcome Brian. I hope you enjoy it. He is really a remarkable man and a remarkable psychologist.
00:38 Brian: I have to admit - as close as I feel I’ve been reading this I feel like I let that section in Ch 17 blow over my head some.
00:40 Eric: I want to take this opportunity to come out against parent-burning.
00:41 Sasha: make sure your children know your stance on this Eric
00:41 Karin: As a mother I strongly agree, Eric.
00:41 Brian: What if they force you to read New Moon?
00:42 Sasha: then you force them to listen to music they will call garbage
00:43 Brian: THAT struggle is real. Thank god my days of The Jonas Brothers and AJR in the car are over
00:44 Eric: I caught my kids listening to Warren Zevon and the Velvet Underground when I’m not around, so we’re good on music.
00:44 Brian: all 4 of mine have some overlap with me and some real “ew”.
00:44 Sasha: my oldest is in a K-pop phase so we are deep in that struggle at the moment
00:45 Allison: my son swore he hated my music yet he listens to a lot of it now.
00:46 Brian: One of my twins just went to see BTS and I got “treated” to some of that in the car whilst giving her a ride home
00:47 Allison: I took my son to see some rapper when he was 15. He was too young to go into the club without a parent.
00:47 Eric: My youngest likes the Zombies and They Might Be Giants - also my influence. I’m “Good Music Dad.”
00:47 Sasha: They Might Be Giants- that sparked a deep memory from many years ago in me. Don’t eat the yellow snow
00:48 Karin: 1952
00:48 Eric: That’s Zappa.
00:48 Sasha: Istanbul and Constantinople is They Might Be Giants?
00:49 Allison: yes
00:49 Eric: Yes.
00:49 Allison: I’ve seen them in concert
00:49 Brian: My Mrs - lurking here - loves TMBG
00:53 Eric: Steinbeck later supported the Vietnam war. Friends with LBJ.
00:54 Joshua: Gotta run. Thanks for the great discussion, everyone! Have a great Thursday!
00:54 Joshua: Run omg
00:54 Allison: Cathy and Adam are both told what to do, they just respond differently.
00:56 Brian: See ya Josh
00:56 Aleksandra: He chose not to be violent physically but he for sure is emotionally coercive.
00:57 Sasha: hate to leave you guys early- but responsibilities blah blah blah. Hope to listen to the end of this call when it’s up. See you all!
00:57 Brian: See ya Sasha! Have a great weekend!
00:57 Allison: bye Sasha I was just going to say I agreed with you about something
01:03 Audrey: That makes a lot of sense for why Adam thinks it is normal for Cathy to be so silent- he was reminded of his step-mother
01:03 Eric: Has anyone watched any of the Netflix show? I watched the first episode so far. Interesting narrative choices.
01:04 Mariah: She tells him that Charles left the gifts
01:05 Allison: the librarian for my other book club has watched 2 episodes and she felt it was too much. I don’t know what she meant because I haven’t seen it.
01:06 Louise: Amen.
01:06 Walter: I watched the whole thing. It is good and plot wise sticks with the novel really well.
01:06 Brian: I’m not sure if stupid is the word I would use as much as pathetic and I don’t mean that in an “oh poor thing” kind of way
01:08 Eric: In the first episode, the framing sequence is Cathy’s appearance, badly beaten, at the brothers’ door. Then we get a flashback to Cyrus, Adam, and Charles’ history up to that point.
01:08 Allison: Steinbeck is an amazing writer.
01:09 Aleksandra: He is bloody badass. I honestly am blown away by his writing.
01:09 Mariah: Timshel next week?
01:09 Eric: Tracy Letts, who plays Cyrus, is a fantastic playwright. He wrote “August, Osage County.”
On this week's call we discuss the idea of Timshel, how it relates to our characters, and why we think the narrator doubts his own assessment of Cathy.
Chat Transcript00:09 Brian: I’m currently reading the East of Eden letters.
00:09 Brian: I have a book on the way from the library which is his journals regarding writing EOE
00:10 Aleksandra: If you run into something can you share?
00:10 Brian: Only 25% into it, but so far I wouldn’t say that there’s any more subtlety to his intentions than what seems to be plain on the page.
00:11 Allison: I am not getting into this argument today. hahaha. Because I don’t agree with projecting modern views on her.
00:11 Brian: But the journals are interesting to read. He considers this to be his magnum opus as he’s writing it.
00:16 Brian: It is heavily implied in the text/inferred on the page before the barn assault scene that Cathy would have manipulated that. Did I read that wrong? Chapter 8 nearing end of section 1?
00:17 Sasha: you read it right, but are we really going to believe a ten year old capable of such a manipulation? what did she have to gain from it
00:18 Allison: Every secondary source I have read concerning the character of Cathy Ames goes against all this sympathy and victimhood this book club or at least some members are projecting on her. It was apparently not Steinbeck’s intent for her to be sympathetic or a victim.
00:19 Aleksandra: You can be a victim and vile person at the same time.
00:19 Phil: true
00:20 Allison: but I think there has been too much projection of modern values on her.
00:20 Brian: I tend to split the difference here. I think that Steinbeck probably did intend Cathy and many of the other characters to be very simple in order to serve an allegorical purpose. But that’s why I didn’t love the book. So I find these other readings, even if they are revisionist and against Steinbeck’s intentions, to be more interesting.
00:21 Brian: Right - it is a lot to believe of a 10 year old.
00:23 Allison: I thought we were supposed to be discussing names lol.
00:25 Allison: Greek Origin: Catherine traces back to the ancient Greek name Aikaterine, which is traditionally linked to the Greek word katharos, meaning “pure”
00:26 Brian: Interesting. That’s a clever choice of name.
00:26 Sasha: nice catch Allison- I wonder if pure has the connotation of to the good or if she can be pure evil
00:28 Eric: Catherine is a prominent saint who was tortured on a wheel.
00:28 Allison: Alternative Theories: Some scholars suggest Aikaterine may relate to hekateros (“each of the two”), the Greek goddess Hecate, or a Coptic phrase.
00:28 Brian: Thanks Aleksandra - I just subscribed to that YouTube channel
00:29 Audrey: Well said, Aleksandra!
00:33 Eric: If people were chill with being whipped, there’d be no reason to do it.
00:33 Aleksandra: You are welcome Brian. I hope you enjoy it. He is really a remarkable man and a remarkable psychologist.
00:38 Brian: I have to admit - as close as I feel I’ve been reading this I feel like I let that section in Ch 17 blow over my head some.
00:40 Eric: I want to take this opportunity to come out against parent-burning.
00:41 Sasha: make sure your children know your stance on this Eric
00:41 Karin: As a mother I strongly agree, Eric.
00:41 Brian: What if they force you to read New Moon?
00:42 Sasha: then you force them to listen to music they will call garbage
00:43 Brian: THAT struggle is real. Thank god my days of The Jonas Brothers and AJR in the car are over
00:44 Eric: I caught my kids listening to Warren Zevon and the Velvet Underground when I’m not around, so we’re good on music.
00:44 Brian: all 4 of mine have some overlap with me and some real “ew”.
00:44 Sasha: my oldest is in a K-pop phase so we are deep in that struggle at the moment
00:45 Allison: my son swore he hated my music yet he listens to a lot of it now.
00:46 Brian: One of my twins just went to see BTS and I got “treated” to some of that in the car whilst giving her a ride home
00:47 Allison: I took my son to see some rapper when he was 15. He was too young to go into the club without a parent.
00:47 Eric: My youngest likes the Zombies and They Might Be Giants - also my influence. I’m “Good Music Dad.”
00:47 Sasha: They Might Be Giants- that sparked a deep memory from many years ago in me. Don’t eat the yellow snow
00:48 Karin: 1952
00:48 Eric: That’s Zappa.
00:48 Sasha: Istanbul and Constantinople is They Might Be Giants?
00:49 Allison: yes
00:49 Eric: Yes.
00:49 Allison: I’ve seen them in concert
00:49 Brian: My Mrs - lurking here - loves TMBG
00:53 Eric: Steinbeck later supported the Vietnam war. Friends with LBJ.
00:54 Joshua: Gotta run. Thanks for the great discussion, everyone! Have a great Thursday!
00:54 Joshua: Run omg
00:54 Allison: Cathy and Adam are both told what to do, they just respond differently.
00:56 Brian: See ya Josh
00:56 Aleksandra: He chose not to be violent physically but he for sure is emotionally coercive.
00:57 Sasha: hate to leave you guys early- but responsibilities blah blah blah. Hope to listen to the end of this call when it’s up. See you all!
00:57 Brian: See ya Sasha! Have a great weekend!
00:57 Allison: bye Sasha I was just going to say I agreed with you about something
01:03 Audrey: That makes a lot of sense for why Adam thinks it is normal for Cathy to be so silent- he was reminded of his step-mother
01:03 Eric: Has anyone watched any of the Netflix show? I watched the first episode so far. Interesting narrative choices.
01:04 Mariah: She tells him that Charles left the gifts
01:05 Allison: the librarian for my other book club has watched 2 episodes and she felt it was too much. I don’t know what she meant because I haven’t seen it.
01:06 Louise: Amen.
01:06 Walter: I watched the whole thing. It is good and plot wise sticks with the novel really well.
01:06 Brian: I’m not sure if stupid is the word I would use as much as pathetic and I don’t mean that in an “oh poor thing” kind of way
01:08 Eric: In the first episode, the framing sequence is Cathy’s appearance, badly beaten, at the brothers’ door. Then we get a flashback to Cyrus, Adam, and Charles’ history up to that point.
01:08 Allison: Steinbeck is an amazing writer.
01:09 Aleksandra: He is bloody badass. I honestly am blown away by his writing.
01:09 Mariah: Timshel next week?
01:09 Eric: Tracy Letts, who plays Cyrus, is a fantastic playwright. He wrote “August, Osage County.”
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